Live Commentary: Everdan v Insignia21

Hi everyone, and welcome to the game Everdan v Insignia21! The game will be played on this map: http://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=65682 and the COs banned are the broken 5, the luck COs, Sturm and Sonja (for glitch reasons). After each move me (Insignia21) and Everdan will comment on the position prior to our move, our thoughts and the actions we take. Feel free to add your own comments on the game here as well, although try not to give advice as to how to play on an upcoming move I think. Hope this experiment works out well, and people enjoy it!

The game page is http://awbw.amarriner.com/game.php?games_id=222384

Sorry, the CO ban list actually includes Sasha, Hawke, Von Bolt and Javier too.

This map strikes me as pretty terrain heavy, with a lot of key fighting areas but no full-out chokepoints. I chose Eagle because I've wanted to try him since getting destroyed by his SCOP when I was strategically in control, and I do think this map is pretty decent for air too. Sasha not being an option was a big bonus too.

I'm pretty happy with my opponents pick of Sami as CO. Sami can be dangerous, but her weaknesses could be a problem in this open map. Her long SCOP gauge is nice too, although when it does activate I'd have to be somewhat careful but I prefer Eagle for sure.

Okay so first off, map analysis.

It's quite interesting that the northern and southern fronts are both largely open while the central front is more congested. Front switching is rather easy thanks to the wide-open space behind the central mountain ranges. These factors mean that AAs will have an easier time blocking copter attacks, which makes copters less good (but still quite good.)

Next, the central base is largely obstructed by the mountain range, which forces vehicles to move farther out of the way to access the central front. For this reason I think footsoldiers are going to be good in the centre, particularly for mech spam. Considering the mountains near the centre that make good parking spots for footsoldiers, this strategy appears quite viable.

The towers are also quite contested - I can't really tell which side is meant to get which tower, and with correct play the towers will probably remain neutral for a while.

For these reasons I've chosen Sami, whose powerful foot soldiers allow her to mech spam from the central base while having an edge in competing for the com towers thanks to her capture advantage. My strategy will revolve around fighting for the com towers and hopefully getting a funding advantage.

InvincibleXI, on the other hand, has selected Eagle, whose powerful copters grant him an edge in the centre against footsoldier attacks. Not to mention his uber-powerful SCOP which basically lets him win the game if I'm not careful enough. Consequently, I'm essentially playing on a timer - I need to get a substantial advantage before he gets to fire off that SCOP, or I'm toast. It doesn't help that my own SCOP has an equally long charge, or that he can do an ass-pull because he can fire off his SCOP at the end of a turn. Depending on the circumstances I may need to be more liberal with my COP, which outclasses his. This means that mech spam is even more important, as are AA's to counter his copters.

On the other hand, if I can use my superior footsoldiers to gain control of the contested cities, of which there are quite a few, or get control of both towers, that will probably give me a decisive edge in the battle. Eagle needs to hold one tower or minimally prevent me from taking both. To that end he should probably build more indirects, which can fend off my footsoldiers while being able to move and fire on his SCOP.

This battle is definitely going to be a close one, all things considered. May the best player win.

After Everdan turn 1.



After my turn 1. Nothing to comment here, obviously just going for the neutral base first to be able to spawn more infantry later

Everdan wrote:

Okay so first off, map analysis.

It's quite interesting that the northern and southern fronts are both largely open while the central front is more congested. Front switching is rather easy thanks to the wide-open space behind the central mountain ranges. These factors mean that AAs will have an easier time blocking copter attacks, which makes copters less good (but still quite good.)

Next, the central base is largely obstructed by the mountain range, which forces vehicles to move farther out of the way to access the central front. For this reason I think footsoldiers are going to be good in the centre, particularly for mech spam. Considering the mountains near the centre that make good parking spots for footsoldiers, this strategy appears quite viable.

The towers are also quite contested - I can't really tell which side is meant to get which tower, and with correct play the towers will probably remain neutral for a while.

For these reasons I've chosen Sami, whose powerful foot soldiers allow her to mech spam from the central base while having an edge in competing for the com towers thanks to her capture advantage. My strategy will revolve around fighting for the com towers and hopefully getting a funding advantage.

InvincibleXI, on the other hand, has selected Eagle, whose powerful copters grant him an edge in the centre against footsoldier attacks. Not to mention his uber-powerful SCOP which basically lets him win the game if I'm not careful enough. Consequently, I'm essentially playing on a timer - I need to get a substantial advantage before he gets to fire off that SCOP, or I'm toast. It doesn't help that my own SCOP has an equally long charge, or that he can do an ass-pull because he can fire off his SCOP at the end of a turn. Depending on the circumstances I may need to be more liberal with my COP, which outclasses his. This means that mech spam is even more important, as are AA's to counter his copters.

On the other hand, if I can use my superior footsoldiers to gain control of the contested cities, of which there are quite a few, or get control of both towers, that will probably give me a decisive edge in the battle. Eagle needs to hold one tower or minimally prevent me from taking both. To that end he should probably build more indirects, which can fend off my footsoldiers while being able to move and fire on his SCOP.

This battle is definitely going to be a close one, all things considered. May the best player win.

Great in-depth analysis, Everdan! I definitely forgot about the contested (and mostly walled off) Comm Towers, which Sami will have a big edge in going for. Certainly I can't allow you to get both Comm Towers or D2D will be a big problem, but how is a very tough question. All the best!

Both sides have decided to grab some early funding by nabbing the port. For my part I've decided to go for the nearby neutral city as well, which allows the infantry to re-route to the airport or towards the frontlines as needed. Invincible on the other hand has chosen to rush towards the frontlines, possibly pre-empting my strategy of capturing the comm towers. Let's see how it plays out.

So this is the position before my turn. I'm already starting to panic. Shit, it looks like I really underestimated the danger of Sami, not just her 130% infantry but her 150% capture. I'm pretty close to losing both comm towers already, which would make me face 110/100 troops not to mention 150/100 infantry, which is not what I want at all. Ok, let's try to think this through rationally.

The fight for the Comm tower on the north just isn't happening. I'm one turn slower to get there, and her superior infantry will be able to fully capture even after I hit it, unless I commit 2 infantry. Even if I do so, I'm going to get slaughtered by the reinforcement infantry. So, that one has to be ceded. I'll go for central cities as compensation.

The south Comm tower is looking critical too. Yes I can get there first but the infantry can hit me from the mountains which is holy crap an 8-5 (or even 9-5! matchup) But if I cede the north I really can't afford to give up the South too. The only option is to go for an artillery which will unfortunately take 3 turns to get into range. So I've got to use my infantry to delay him to give me a chance to get there. Once I do the Comm tower will probably fall eventually. The critical thing now obviously would be a direct counter to my artillery, but I do think I can scramble enough forces over to protect it though it's scarier than I would have liked. Other than that, all that's left to do is send up infantry to go quickly seize the contested cities ASAP.

*I just had a mini-heart attack when I looked through the CO Chart to see it didn't mention Sami's direct combat units as 10% weaker. Fortunately the other charts and calculator say they are, so that's not too bad then.

Okay, so this is the position before my turn. Invincible has chosen to build an arty on the southern front to counter my infantry. Good thinking, but he doesn't have the funds to back it up with a tank, and with so few infantry out, the arty's going to be horribly vulnerable on that open front. Okay, so I'll build a tank on the south front to counter that. His infantry can begin capturing the tower first, but it's fine, he'll never finish that. I can commit as many infantry as he does, and meanwhile I've still got that upper com tower... This is looking decent.

On the north front, it looks like he's given up on all hope of stopping me from capturing the com tower. That's nice, I'll divert the rest of my forces to capture some properties then. The rest of my infantries advance, and I also send one to get the airport, which will give me the option of building the first B-copter.

I build infantry on my empty bases and end turn.

A tank to counter my arty- why am I not surprised? Scary, but with some quick calculations it looks like I can just about hold. Some further annoying calculations show that I'm not able to go for the southern city closest to the comm tower because unbelievably, even though I can capture it and then hit his capturing infantry from the mountain to its east, there is no way for me to hit the infantry a second time with my infantry despite having 3 moves to get somewhere and looking really near. So the mountain range and Sami's ability stops that plan. Plan A looks forced then- block the comm tower and sac my infantry. Meanwhile I decide not to capture the nearest city to the south yet just so I can rush my artillery quicker, and use that infantry possibly as a blocking tool to stop his dangerous tank, which seems a lot closer than I calculated at first.

In the north I go for the central properties. The comm tower is gone anyway. My capture phase strategy is always fairly aggressive, so I will mop up the nearest properties later. I'm hoping that won't cost me too much funds early stage because things are already looking super scary.

The arty rolls forward, so I send my tank to meet it. Invincible has chosen to rush for central properties, which may spread out his forces on the southern front a little too much, considering those neutral properties. It doesn't look like more meatshields will arrive any time soon, which means I only have 3 infantry to contend with, 1 of which should die pretty soon.

Unfortunately it looks like he will be able to stop me from outright capturing the southern com tower with that arty, but I have enough forces in the vicinity that I'll be able to keep him off it as well, which is enough of a win for me at the moment. Not letting him consolidate with his arty is vital, so I'm going to have to press him hard on that front.

On the northern front my infantry continues to rush for the com tower, which he's given up hope on. Excellent, if that's the case I can focus more infantry on capturing nearby properties. I will begin capturing the two neutral cities much earlier than he will, which is a nice plus. The rest of my infantry should reach the frontlines in time to get my fair share of the central properties, and maybe a little more as well.

I build three infantry and end my turn.

So, the tank comes nearer and he heads towards both comm towers. My units are still out of range, so I bring my artillery and infantry towards the target in the South. I calculate that I'm not able to stop him from taking the southern Comm tower unless I sac my infantry, so regrettably I do so, starting a capture I'll never be able to finish. It's only later that I consider I could have let him take the comm tower briefly before blasting him off it and sending my infantry to capture it, but I'm not certain it would have worked anyway. I've got the funds now, so I build a tank to stop his. I may need funds in the short term very soon, so I make some maneuvres intended on getting quick captures instead of aggressive ones.

In the north there's not much to say. I continue expanding and head quickly for contested cities in the centre, and more or less ignore the comm tower.

On the south front the arty continues to move into position. I advance my tank to pressure his weak formation, which forces him to divert those infantry to shield the arty. Meanwhile my infantry attacks his capturing infantry. With correct play he will force me to sacrifice it, but that's alright, it's an equal trade and I need to deny him the com tower. With 1 tower and no opposing tower my vehicles are on par with his and my infantry outclass his completely.

Shoot, maybe the three infantry was a mistake. I would have liked an arty on the south position to hold the fort, and I had the funds to build an arty in the southern base last turn. Oh well, I can make up for it this turn.

The northern com tower is mine, and my infantry move into position to mop up those neutral cities. I opt for an arty on the top front, since the central front has some nice parking spots for arties and I might need it to protect the northern com tower later. Also this leaves me with enough funds to build a B-copter and 3 infantries next turn. This is a critical point - the map's actually quite good for copters, despite the relative mobility of AAs, and his two tanks + arty are vulnerable, as are his forward infantries. Depending on what happens I'll use the B-copter to prevent him from taking the central cities, or I'll leave it to my arty and send the B-copter south.

I build an infantry on the central base and end turn.

So he hits my infantry unsurprisingly. His tank is also approaching striking distance, so let’s use my infantry to shield the artillery while I bring it to take out the enemy infantry. Captures all around and my tank comes as close as possible. Within striking distance, so I build a back-up behind it to protect it.

In the north he’s gotten the comm tower. What I can do is get the nearby cities, so let’s do that. I’m slightly surprised to see 2 artilleries built, they don’t seem to help so much in the short term, allowing me to get an initiative.

He's committed quite a lot of resources to holding the southern front, and puts the question to my tank. Can I go north to interfere with his central captures? No, I can't, his tank makes it just in time to park on that central city a space below the infantry, and I can't knock off the capturing infantry without exposing the tank. Can I go south? Yes, but there's not much point.

My tank retreats for the moment, skipping back a step. If he's not careful I'll be able to disable that arty, after which the com tower should fall easily. Both arties roll forward, the north one to help with the central push and the south one to hold the com tower. By now most of my infantry are done capturing so I should have enough meatshields to protect the arties.

Meanwhile I produce a battle copter and three infantries. Having the first copter allows me to get a territorial advantage, though I admit his copters still outclass mine. I'll see how the next few turns play out to determine where to commit my copter.

He finishes off my infantry and cleverly moves to the mountain to lessen artillery damage. No big deal I carelessly think, I can finish him off with my infantry which is then in position to take the comms tower. So that’s what I do, capturing the cities along the way. My tank from my factory also moves to the wrong square idiotically although obviously I don’t see why yet.

In the north it becomes pretty clear that charging the other Comms Tower isn’t going to work (it was kind of an idea, though I didn’t really expect it). So I take the cities I obviously can get, it looks like a 20-20 split which isn’t too bad for a fight against Sami. I counter the BCpter with my own, which feels pretty good too.

-nil-

Oh em gee, he left the arty wide open! My tank scores 70% damage against it, which is enough to cripple it. The south tower should be mine now. Both my arties and my BC advance towards the centre.

He's countered my copter with his own copter, which is a little bad for me but not too big a deal. I will still win the first strike, just that it'll be a little weaker than his.

Invi has done a good job maintaining funding parity, though I do hope I can start to push him off his central cities soon.

I'll risk spending on a tank to check his southern tanks. An AA next turn should reach the frontlines quickly enough to prevent any disturbance.
I build a tank and two infs and end turn.

I actually have my comments on the next turn ready but I'm not on my com now so I'll use this break to ask for feedback from others as to how our commentary is going and as to any ways we could improve. Is the description of what's going on clear and interesting? Anything we're missing? And once again, if anyone has comments of their own please feel free to give it. Thanks!

Oh whoops.

Ok, that was bad. I completely forgot his tank was still in range of my artillery. So, that sucks. Hmm, hopefully his tank is within range of both of mine to finish it off in compensation? Oh that’s right, because I stupidly moved my second tank to the forest instead of the plain below it where it should have gone, I’m one step too far from hitting it with that tank too. Of course, the ideal thing would have been not to finish off that 1HP infantry on the mountain and expose the artillery at all. Stupid, stupid, stupid. And now, I’m actually going to face a fight for the south Comms tower without my artillery support.

In other bad news, the city I was trying to capture is apparently a no-go. I mean, I did know that Sami could hit me from the woods painfully, but I figured I could hit it back then resume capturing. Unfortunately, now I see that the BCptr is going to have a few things to say about that. My one is too far from that city to help out. So looks like that city isn’t going to be mine.

The obvious option would be to hit the tank with my city tank from the plain, with an approx 8-5 split. I don’t know if my artillery will survive the second hit, but at least I’ll get his tank as compensation. Of course, I’ll have lost about 2 HP on my tank too.

The alternative is to forget about his tank for now. My advanced tank can be used to stop his capture of the central city, which could be critical since I don’t want to be down on funds in the long run. That would mean abandoning my artillery and trapping his tank with my backwards one and infantry. Ultimately, I will be able to park on a city, and I don’t think he can hit me first or run away, so he’ll likely finish of my arty. Then I can hit him for the 8-5 split. Meanwhile hopefully I can take his central city but I’m not really counting on it. Neither are good choices, but I go with the latter.

Still in the south, I originally planned to move my infantry to take the Comms Tower, but I can’t give him first strike there with the 8-5 that happened earlier. So I try to manoeuvre a bit to get ready to take it next turn or hit him if necessary. The comms tower is going to be a very tough fight especially if he brings his arty in, so I guess I better build one of my own to scramble that way.

In the north, I can’t afford to retreat from the city or he’ll take it easily, so I hit his mountain infantry then continue capturing. I don’t really expect to be able to get the city for even one turn, but it’s worth a try to distract his BCpter from my 9HP infantry. Other than that I just move my meatshields forward, build another BCpter to get into combat ASAP, and fill the rest with infantry.

This is amazing
I never put that much thought into my opening plays, maybe that's why I usually suck early on.
Do you feel you actually play more careful because you're watched?

Contrary to expectations, he didn't hit my tank this turn. Well, alright, that seems reasonable, since he stopped my capture of the neutral city and the tank's trapped there anyway. I'll take the opportunity to finish off his arty then. The southern com tower should be mine now - he can't effectively disrupt me without indirect support. My arty moves into the mountain range to hold the fort. I should be able to get that tower now. On the south front
I scramble a tank to counter his well-centralised tank, though I'm not too worried yet since he can't really attack anything important. I back it up with another tank.

His B-copters are beginning to look menacing. Even without the comm tower, 115/110 copters are no joke. A quick check on the damage calculator shows that I'll only be able to deal about 6 HP of damage to him with my own copter, even with the tower, and will take 3-4 damage in return. Not very good odds for my copter. And annoyingly, it's backed up by another copter. I'll probably have to scramble an AA to guard my centre and build an AA from the south front next turn. Buying another copter probably wouldn't hurt, seeing as he doesn't have AA's.

In the centre I'm well placed to stop his capture of the neutral city. Just move the infantry out of the way, and the B-copter attacks - crap! A misclick.  Gah - that mistake just cost me a neutral city, and probably gave him 5-6k extra funding by the time I recapture, if I ever do. Well, so much for that. The arty moves up so the city's in range.

I build a northern AA, a southern tank to reinforce the one I've just moved off the base and a central mech to check his central tank. End turn.

This is pretty cool and I think it will be an awesome resource for new players too. Knowing how to play is one thing, but really getting insight into what other players consider and why can help inexperienced players pick up strategy quickly and maybe even learn how to make better maps by seeing how different options result in different considerations. Either way, I'm enjoying reading this, so don't think you're without an audience

Also, I imagine that theether has a point that you might consider your moves more in depth since you're including play-by-play commentary. I know that would make me think twice (or more!) about everything I wanted to do!

theether wrote:I never put that much thought into my opening plays, maybe that's why I usually suck early on.
Do you feel you actually play more careful because you're watched?

I don't know about Everdan, but I usually take about this long in calculating each move, I'm a pretty slow player, and during combat I often calculate each individual strike. I'm still figuring out what to do now after Everdan's last turn. The plus side is that I make less mistakes, but the minus is I normally spend more time, so I play very few simultaneous games.

Everdan wrote:Just move the infantry out of the way, and the B-copter attacks - crap! A misclick. Gah - that mistake just cost me a neutral city, and probably gave him 5-6k extra funding by the time I recapture, if I ever do.

Ha ha, I was stumped by you allowing me to finish that capture.

Everdan wrote:The southern com tower should be mine now - he can't effectively disrupt me without indirect support. My arty moves into the mountain range to hold the fort. I should be able to get that tower now. On the south front

Without spoiling my plans, which I haven't fully confirmed yet, it should suffice to say that I have no intention on giving up on the southern com tower.

Thanks to theether and Xmo5 for reading and commenting! Great to know people are following this! So anyway now we have kind of moved into the combat phase, moves will probably take longer and we'll have a proper play by play.



Goodbye artillery we hardly knew ye. In the south, things have gone more or less as expected, with Everdan moving his units quickly towards the Comms Tower, placing his artillery particularly in a great position. He seems to think that it's going to be his easily now, I have my doubts about that. The southern tank obviously must be hit now before it starts wreaking havoc among my precious infantry, but I consider briefly how. Hitting from the road gives my tank a better location to move from while hitting from the plain offers more defense. A quick check at the damage calculator shows that hitting from the road will likely cost 1HP in the initial attack, and possibly another 1 on his turn, which I can't afford, so I do the safe strike from the plains for an 8-5. I obviously can't let him either capture or use the comm tower as a base of attack, so I have to either take it or interpose or both. His artillery makes interposing an unattractive option, if I hit him first from the mountain for a roughly 7-7 split, his artillery will finish me off allowing his infantry to go there and hit my capturing infantry. I can't even suicide my infantry there to delay- his infantry has another route to hit the comm tower from the beach. Hitting the mountain infantry from the road leads to a lot of infantry lost too, so let's forget that. Start capturing to delay him and bring reinforcements.

On the other front, to my astonishment, he's allowed me to finish capturing the northern central city, which should give me at least 3k worth of funding- I'm not very confident in being able to hold it in the long run. My infantry heads to the mountain to hit his infantry (the alternative attack of about 1 HP on the artillery isn't really tempting). 8-4 is about as much as I could have hoped for under these circumstances. However, I now have a massive choice to make.

The central neutral city is so tempting. At any rate, I can't let him get a foot on it, but if I could capture it and actually gain a funding advantage, that would be super cool. And I could probably do so- using my tank I can cripple his nearby infantry on the road (~75%), while by BCpter charges up to protect it. Say he hits my tank with his tank and my BCpter with his, I'd hammer his BCpter with the one I have behind, and use my damaged one to hit the tank. Not the worst scenario to be fair.

But if he hits my tank with the BCpter and finishes it off with the tank, he'd have killed my tank without loss. Yes I can nearly destroy his BCpter next turn safely in retaliation, but I don't like the disadvantage I'd have with tanks. Building a tank on the south front to compensate might leave the north front open to his unchallenged AA. An overreliance on BCpters probably isn't a good thing as he can build AAs to control them. Also, he could kamikaze his damaged infantry on my city delaying my capture while he gets reinforcements. Ultimately, the cost in terms of forces isn't worth the potential economic gain since it leaves me woefully outnumbered on the field.

So since I can't take the city, I park my BCptr on it, and send the infantry eyeing it to different fields. My tank makes a safe retreat (I was thinking of parking it on his city for fun, but decided against the risk). The rest of my moves are straightforward. I build another BCpter to maintain air supremacy, and build a tank in the north to check his AA there.

So let's take stock of the situation first.

To recap, my initial strategy was to seize both com towers or get a funding advantage in the centre. I have partially succeeded in the first, since I've gotten the north tower while I'm not losing the fight for the south one. In the meantime I will use my footsoldier advantage to press him hard in the centre and hopefully take back my centre cities.

The map right now is overall still rather balanced - I'm slightly down on funding but up on a tower, he's slightly up on funding but down a tower. That puts my vehicles on par with his, my copters slightly weaker than his, and my infantry far above his. One of my advantages is that I've succeeded in getting most of my forces to the front lines, while his forces are still en route, and will take 2-3 turns to get into proper position. If I can push him off the centre, I'll probably be able to take back that city I lost for no reason, and maybe the neutral city. Another advantage is that my arty and a few infs are forcing him to commit more resources to stop me taking the south tower. The arty is well defended in that mountain enclosure and the infs enjoy the +40% defense boost. To effectively prevent me from taking that tower he's committed a long beeline of infantries, which means a sore lack of meatshields in the centre. I can effectively use this to advance.

On the other hand, he's got a total of 3 copters to my 2, all of which outclass mine, and can achieve tank parity on his turn. He's set to take a funding advantage after he captures the last neutral city in his territory, which I really need to negate very soon, because the timer's ticking on his SCOP, and I need to get a substantial advantage of some sort before he can fire it off.

Bearing this in mind I maneuver my vehicles and the bulk of my infantry towards the centre. Because he lacks enough infantry to defend it properly, I should be able to gain something from that. The northern AA moves into position to cover the arty against B-copter attack, and my B-copter retreats behind the line of meatshields. The northern arty takes out his 5-hp inf on the city, my inf hits his mountain inf. The rest of my forces advance. The southern arty moves into position to lock the com tower. In hindsight this may have been a mistake, I should have moved it only one space below the city, not two. Oh well.

I build another AA on the south front to guard all my forces against his dangerous copters, and then go for a B-copter and 2 infs. I'm worried that he'll hit my tank, which might leave him temporarily up in vehicles, but hey, I'm playing Sami - have to abuse those footsoldiers as far as possible, so I don't go for a tank.

End turn.